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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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yes it's the skeptic zone episode number

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1 million and well actually no it's

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episode number 153 but the skeptic zone

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in the past week has reached 1 million

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downloads and to all million of you

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thank you what's a shoot for another

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million Richard Saunders here with you

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from Sydney Australia now this week's

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episode of the skeptic zone is a Michael

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Shermer special oh yes Michael Sherman

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now I know he's influenced many of you

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he certainly influenced me and he's

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influenced Maynard oh yes so may not and

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I take it in turns this week to

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interview Michael Shermer an interesting

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approach you my interview at the top of

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the show then we have Michael Shermer at

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skeptics in the pub and some reactions

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from people going there and we get

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Maynard interviewing Michael Shermer

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from a slightly different point of view

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a Michael Shermer experienced today on

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the skeptic zone and this week's episode

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is brought to you by our good friends at

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skeptic bros oh yes skeptic bros the

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people who make the fabulous fabulous

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placebo band I'm wearing three one two

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three of them on my wrist as I speak

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pacy bow bands from skeptic bros these

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are the PM the answer the sceptical

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answer to those ridiculous power balance

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bands and all their clones little wrist

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bands with a hologram in them now if you

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go to ww skeptic Bros BR 0 s calm you

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can find out more including how to order

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them

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if you do order one of these fabulous

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placebo bands which are coming sort of

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camouflage color now which is pretty

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groovy and glow-in-the-dark and boy they

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really glow in the dark make sure you

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order three or four and where three or

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four or at least two because then you

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get people asking you questions if you

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just wear one nobody takes any notice

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but we're a couple and then people stop

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and say why are you wearing two or three

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of those things and then you can tell

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them exactly why exactly why well it's a

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very short introduction this week why

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because we all want to hear what Michael

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Shermer has to say Michael Shermer who

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was visiting Sydney in the past week so

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sit back grab your pipe and your hat

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slippers trusty dog by your side

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armchair newspaper and hot cocoa and

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well I'm sitting back here comfortably

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in a nice hotel room with Michael

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Shermer hi Michael I glad to see you in

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Australia get to be back again my fourth

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trip to the land down unda this must be

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your shortest trip let's say no actually

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when I did that round-the-world trip

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lecturing on a jet we were only in

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Australia for like a day and a half two

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days something like that we just were in

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karen's oh yes and said this time in saw

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three days now four days right so you

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were came of here really to attend the

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the Melbourne conference it was some

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thing think ink right yeah sort of Ted

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wanna be and you know as well attended

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like 900 people and neil degrasse tyson

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and myself and I NRC alley by video link

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and few others it was good fun but one

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day yeah I was one day they should have

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you know done the whole weekend but you

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know it's expensive to rent that place I

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assume at huge auditorium but it's a

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pretty enthusiastic crowd I mean it was

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it was you know pro reason rationality

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skepticism and all that is what they're

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promoting science but there were a lot

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of atheists there and he is impose a big

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theme Christina rad was there and yeah

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that's what people want to talk a lot

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about that that's interesting are you

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finding that more and more I mean in all

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your years of skeptical work I mean we

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all cover the big topics that will ring

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the old favorites are always there yeah

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psychics and and all this sort of stuff

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but more and more it seems to me that

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atheism and religion and yeah I know and

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it's it's interesting I mean I love the

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topic science and religion are all that

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and why people don't believe in God or

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why they do believe in God but but you

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know the skeptical movement at least as

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I envisioned it and specifically what

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we're doing in skeptic magazine is pro

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science that is you have to be for

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something that's not enough to define

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your

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but what you don't believe that's not

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going to get us there we we have to tell

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people what we do believe yeah we

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believe in science and reason and

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rationality in a rational society and

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the enlightenment values that have come

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down to us over the centuries from the

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great philosophers and thinkers and

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scientists and naturalist's and you know

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we believe in civil liberties and we

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believe in rights and equal treatment

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under the law we believe in the progress

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of civilization is pushed forward by you

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know liberal enlightenment values

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classical liberal enlightenment values I

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mean and equality in all those women

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yeah especially for women would you

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doesn't realize still I realize but you

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know much progress has been made social

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and no thanks to religion for any of the

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rights revolutions and the humanitarian

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revolutions over the last two centuries

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say it's largely been driven by secular

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values that are derived from

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Enlightenment principles beginning with

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the concept that you know people are not

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a means to an end but an end and of

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themselves and whatever you think our

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Creator is God or evolution doesn't

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really matter the point is that you know

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we have value and therefore you can't

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treat people certain ways that's that

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that's a lot i was a long time coming

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you know in the history of ten thousand

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year history civilization and and it's

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the kind of thing still to fight for but

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but religions always been slightly

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behind the wave not in front of it you

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know they'll take credit for the

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abolition of slavery for example

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pointing to people like Wilberforce

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but and it's true he wasn't an

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abolitionist but the heat he was

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fighting against his own fellow

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Christians who were opposed to

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abolishing slavery and which they

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defended on strict biblical theological

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arguments so really it's it's it's we

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who are on the cutting edge of that by

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we I mean not just skeptics but anybody

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who thinks rationally which are we would

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call them skeptics my skepticism I mean

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thoughtful inquiry it

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just scientist I typically if I agree

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and the word is is always dogging us

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because yes general public they'll never

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get it now I know all the cynics no no

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yeah yeah what are you skeptical of what

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don't you believe in right what you

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absolutely right what they don't say

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what are you 40 you're the guys who

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proved got us to this standard of living

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through science right why our children

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live past three and yeah and why we have

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all our teeth at 50 or whatever it is

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right that's interesting so how do you

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do you ever take sort of the long view

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of society's progress and civilization

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and if you did what sort of stage do you

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think we're at at the moment well i just

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read Steve bangers new book comes out

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next month the better angels of our

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nature why violence has declined but

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it's not just violence I mean he's

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talking about everything you know

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murders and homicides and rates of

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killing and Wars and all that yes but

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also you know treatment of blacks and

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women spanking has declined yes the

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death penalty is almost non-existent now

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whereas virtually everybody had the

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death penalty for like in England he

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shows it you know there were hundreds of

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crimes you could get the death penalty

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for it was like 240 crimes like just

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like 200 years ago that you could be put

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to death for now zero right so what I

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think you know we've come a long ways

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how much further do we have to go well I

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you know I don't what the scale is

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exactly the question yes there's no

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scale of course yes no end point but but

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I guess I would just describe it you

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know verbally is you know the huge

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progress we've come a long ways and do I

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agree with Peter singers expanding

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circle of sentiments and but I think we

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should expand it even a little bit more

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well first you know women and blacks now

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and you know gays next close you know

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there it's that it's happening right now

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and very very effectively I think yes

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although I would have thought a little

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faster banila will get there and so

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we're the last of the oppressed menorahs

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so to speak atheists I mean it-it's hard

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it started claim i'm in a present he

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minority is a white guy living in Los

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Angeles I mean it's like that's not

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exactly like it's a big problem but but

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there are places in the world and in the

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united states where it's not so well the

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United States government Richard oak

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enough tokens often says that any

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out-and-out atheist couldn't get elected

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to office yes well true is he I don't

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know I don't think that's actually true

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I mean there are some atheists

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congressman who have you know said that

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they are president I don't know maybe

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not um you know yet anyway not yet but

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we're getting maybe we're getting there

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it'll just takes time how long ago was

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it with the thought of an

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african-american president I don't think

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of yes right unthinkable Anthony go yeah

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i mean when kennedy ran it was a big

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thing that he was catholic yes it's like

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a big boy he's account and i think

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there's a chance that mitt romney will

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get the nomination over perry hopefully

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and he actually could defeat obama if

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the economy just turned around so we

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could have a Mormon president and it'll

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be interesting to see if that comes to

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the forefront you know like do you wear

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the underwear and do you really believe

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that Joseph Smith you know read the

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secret codes through these little peep

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stones in and out of my husband's out of

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a hat yeah yeah i mean really believe

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that I wonder if it whether the

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expression comes from you're talking out

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of your hat I don't think so but yeah I

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don't either anyway and apart from that

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I've been reading some of the and I

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think I have an audio report you've run

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into trouble with the truth is over the

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yeah yeah what why you specifically is

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that because you've been hammering them

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yeah well I'm the reason been hammering

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I'm pretty hard every chance I get just

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because I I don't know why it appeals to

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me is so much is that it's just one of

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the goofier things I've ever heard it's

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just so classically your rationale in

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the sense of making Mickey basic logical

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fallacies the conjunction fallacy

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example the probability of two events

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happening ro is always going to be less

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than either one of them by themselves

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happening and so we know planes crashed

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into the World Trade Center buildings so

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the belief that controlled demolition

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also happened you have to believe that

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both sets of improbable events happen at

272
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the same time and furthermore that

273
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:40,130
somehow they planted the bombs and the

274
00:12:44,620 --> 00:12:42,560
exact same floors that the wings of the

275
00:12:46,300 --> 00:12:44,630
plane hit at that angle because that's

276
00:12:48,910 --> 00:12:46,310
the angle at which the buildings began

277
00:12:51,130 --> 00:12:48,920
to collapse you can see it's videos so

278
00:12:53,230 --> 00:12:51,140
somehow or another that would have it

279
00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:53,240
the pilots would have had to know okay

280
00:12:59,440 --> 00:12:55,910
we gotta hit floors you know 73 through

281
00:13:02,680 --> 00:12:59,450
82 it makes furious body yeah it is very

282
00:13:03,790 --> 00:13:02,690
because right and I had an email just

283
00:13:06,370 --> 00:13:03,800
the other day from one of the troopers

284
00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:06,380
going you know about the asbestos thing

285
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:08,390
right when they built the World Trade

286
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:09,680
Center buildings when they got up to

287
00:13:13,870 --> 00:13:11,810
like the 76th floor there was this big

288
00:13:16,450 --> 00:13:13,880
controversy about asbestos and they had

289
00:13:19,270 --> 00:13:16,460
no asbestos from the floors on up for

290
00:13:20,860 --> 00:13:19,280
fire protection and and so the pilots

291
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:20,870
were told ahead of time there's no

292
00:13:25,690 --> 00:13:23,360
asbestos in the foot you know from floor

293
00:13:28,330 --> 00:13:25,700
73 on up so make sure you hit that floor

294
00:13:30,370 --> 00:13:28,340
and or higher in and they review ahead

295
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:30,380
program the plane to hit it that it was

296
00:13:36,670 --> 00:13:35,120
like really really delete is but this is

297
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:36,680
just one of them right this is just one

298
00:13:40,630 --> 00:13:38,930
of the theories yes all sorts of one's

299
00:13:43,450 --> 00:13:40,640
flying out that fly quoc shouldn't use

300
00:13:46,630 --> 00:13:43,460
that yeah but out there about they

301
00:13:49,930 --> 00:13:46,640
weren't planes at all oh right and crazy

302
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:49,940
this remote-control plane flown planes

303
00:13:54,010 --> 00:13:52,010
well they had bombs strapped to them

304
00:13:55,210 --> 00:13:54,020
right there's I've heard yes they were

305
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:55,220
strapped to them I've heard that one

306
00:13:59,650 --> 00:13:56,930
that the remote control there was nobody

307
00:14:01,600 --> 00:13:59,660
in them here right so then you ask him

308
00:14:04,330 --> 00:14:01,610
what were worth worth of passengers go

309
00:14:06,580 --> 00:14:04,340
because you know there were people well

310
00:14:08,020 --> 00:14:06,590
they swept him off and took him to a

311
00:14:10,330 --> 00:14:08,030
warehouse and we're all they have to say

312
00:14:11,980 --> 00:14:10,340
is well the US government well they can

313
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:11,990
do anything they might I US government

314
00:14:15,850 --> 00:14:13,490
seem to have their omniscient and

315
00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:15,860
omnipotent yeah yeah they can't get the

316
00:14:18,430 --> 00:14:17,030
tax system right or the health system

317
00:14:20,020 --> 00:14:18,440
right but they can make all these people

318
00:14:22,510 --> 00:14:20,030
just right

319
00:14:23,770 --> 00:14:22,520
it is and what about the people that

320
00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:23,780
were talking to their loved ones on

321
00:14:27,610 --> 00:14:25,670
their cell phones yeah well you know the

322
00:14:28,810 --> 00:14:27,620
FBI and the CIA they have the special

323
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:28,820
equipment where they can replicate

324
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:31,850
people's conversations and actually

325
00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:33,680
running a conversation with you know

326
00:14:40,090 --> 00:14:35,900
just goes on and on it's just so absurd

327
00:14:41,620 --> 00:14:40,100
so yeah I hammer that pretty good I must

328
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:41,630
do you hidden isn't that there's no end

329
00:14:45,850 --> 00:14:44,000
I mean you can't you can't give them the

330
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:45,860
fate of complete rest that's not

331
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:47,690
possible for sometimes people do you

332
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:51,290
find that there's the similar similarity

333
00:14:55,390 --> 00:14:52,610
between the truth is and the climate

334
00:14:58,690 --> 00:14:55,400
change deniers well I guess in a sense

335
00:15:03,190 --> 00:14:58,700
of there's no facts that will convince

336
00:15:05,370 --> 00:15:03,200
them I mean the ice cap on Greenland

337
00:15:08,740 --> 00:15:05,380
could fall off into the ocean and then

338
00:15:10,810 --> 00:15:08,750
it's a left-wing conspiracy or something

339
00:15:13,810 --> 00:15:10,820
you know because you know there'll be

340
00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:13,820
people listening to this interview great

341
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,470
listeners of the skeptic zone who will

342
00:15:20,140 --> 00:15:17,360
now there is we'll be burning because

343
00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:20,150
they consider that we're crazy that we

344
00:15:25,390 --> 00:15:22,310
three exhale you know I consensus on

345
00:15:26,950 --> 00:15:25,400
climate change right it's a fascinating

346
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:26,960
I understand what are coming from and I

347
00:15:30,460 --> 00:15:28,910
was skeptical of the climate stuff for

348
00:15:32,220 --> 00:15:30,470
quite a while I mean when I was in

349
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:32,230
college the environmentalist movement

350
00:15:37,270 --> 00:15:35,360
used a lot of scare tactics and you know

351
00:15:39,630 --> 00:15:37,280
things created this sort of dystopia

352
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:39,640
world that we were all heading into and

353
00:15:44,950 --> 00:15:42,800
you know overpopulation and I remember

354
00:15:46,990 --> 00:15:44,960
that rainforests would be gone peak oil

355
00:15:49,210 --> 00:15:47,000
would you see the world now before you

356
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:49,220
highlights of it yeah and well what

357
00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:50,960
happened well what happened was science

358
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:53,540
really saved us were able to feed those

359
00:15:56,770 --> 00:15:55,490
people now unlike before and and the

360
00:16:00,580 --> 00:15:56,780
earth can sustain more because of

361
00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:00,590
science and technology and and also they

362
00:16:03,460 --> 00:16:02,150
exaggerated so you know the projections

363
00:16:05,710 --> 00:16:03,470
are hard to make and the science wasn't

364
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:05,720
very good in 1970s but it's really good

365
00:16:10,390 --> 00:16:08,090
now right so I kind of lost track of it

366
00:16:13,410 --> 00:16:10,400
for a while and it seemed like there was

367
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:13,420
a lot of exaggeration going on and and

368
00:16:19,090 --> 00:16:17,360
but but really by 2000 2000 s I think

369
00:16:20,410 --> 00:16:19,100
the evidence was pretty overwhelming you

370
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:20,420
know there was just a lot of really good

371
00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:23,210
data and I think the way a skeptic

372
00:16:27,370 --> 00:16:24,470
should think about it is the same way

373
00:16:29,170 --> 00:16:27,380
that we know evolution happened that

374
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:29,180
there's a convergence of evidence for

375
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:31,490
multiple lines of inquiry so the idea

376
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:32,510
that

377
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:34,970
climate change climate science is sort

378
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:36,710
of a conspiracy of sorts and these guys

379
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:39,710
are all in cahoots to get funding and

380
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:41,510
that sort of thing this is the same

381
00:16:44,110 --> 00:16:42,770
accusation creationist bank about

382
00:16:45,370 --> 00:16:44,120
evolution it's like they're all meeting

383
00:16:47,260 --> 00:16:45,380
on the weekends get their stories

384
00:16:49,780 --> 00:16:47,270
straight you know and that's not how it

385
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:49,790
happens I mean evolution is understood

386
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:51,710
through so many different fields of

387
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:54,560
science of scientists that don't even

388
00:16:57,940 --> 00:16:56,150
know each other they don't go to the

389
00:17:00,670 --> 00:16:57,950
same conferences they work in different

390
00:17:01,930 --> 00:17:00,680
fields completely different fields and

391
00:17:03,490 --> 00:17:01,940
the same thing with climates I mean you

392
00:17:04,810 --> 00:17:03,500
got the glacier guys they you know

393
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:04,820
they're one group and they go to their

394
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:07,520
own conferences and the people study

395
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:10,010
clouds and and then you got the the

396
00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:13,010
colleges that study some obscure frog

397
00:17:18,910 --> 00:17:16,270
that has to breed with this kind of hmm

398
00:17:20,860 --> 00:17:18,920
when these plants open or some bird or

399
00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:20,870
whatever that and these plants are now

400
00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:23,000
opening earlier and earlier every year

401
00:17:28,270 --> 00:17:27,230
because it's you know it's you know the

402
00:17:29,710 --> 00:17:28,280
clients getting warmer and warmer

403
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:29,720
earlier and earlier because of global

404
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:32,720
warming now that guy you know he doesn't

405
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:35,210
know anything about clouds or climate

406
00:17:39,670 --> 00:17:37,010
modeling he's an ecologist that studies

407
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:39,680
butyl flowering plants and he's

408
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:43,690
documenting this change shift right so

409
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:45,650
that's how we know about the climate

410
00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:47,360
change is multiple lines of inquiry is

411
00:17:53,890 --> 00:17:50,030
Concilium inductions that it makes

412
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:53,900
science so robust and therefore when a

413
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:55,610
climate deniers is oh yeah but what

414
00:18:00,940 --> 00:17:57,530
about this mistake that they made or you

415
00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:00,950
know what about this this station a

416
00:18:04,690 --> 00:18:03,080
temperature recording station that's in

417
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:04,700
a parking lot of black parking lot the

418
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:08,090
heat island effect well I mean do you

419
00:18:11,620 --> 00:18:10,100
think these people are idiots that do

420
00:18:13,090 --> 00:18:11,630
climate science they don't know about

421
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:13,100
the heat island effect that you know

422
00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:14,570
they don't take that into account with

423
00:18:18,220 --> 00:18:16,220
this you know there's thousands of these

424
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:18,230
temperature stations there are nowhere

425
00:18:23,740 --> 00:18:21,010
near cities and they're showing these

426
00:18:27,610 --> 00:18:23,750
constantly changing trends of the earth

427
00:18:30,250 --> 00:18:27,620
getting warmer so that's just one of

428
00:18:31,780 --> 00:18:30,260
these like distracting things like the

429
00:18:33,670 --> 00:18:31,790
creationists used like if you can't

430
00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:33,680
explain this you know one little tiny

431
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:37,460
thing here then evolution is wrong yeah

432
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:40,370
that's a really I think this skeptics

433
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:42,770
are becoming I mean they take their on

434
00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:44,490
the wrong side on this one now

435
00:18:49,549 --> 00:18:47,220
that's where the word is really terrible

436
00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:49,559
yeah right so I mean climate-change

437
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:51,660
skeptic is firmly implanted in the

438
00:18:56,299 --> 00:18:54,720
public yes right right that's why I was

439
00:18:59,840 --> 00:18:56,309
discussing with you a little bit earlier

440
00:19:01,850 --> 00:18:59,850
where I'm used to be people say you're a

441
00:19:04,370 --> 00:19:01,860
climate-change skeptic right yeah

442
00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:04,380
frequently as they used to not so much

443
00:19:08,510 --> 00:19:07,020
anymore you used to say you guys are

444
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:08,520
crazy you don't even think we went to

445
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:15,690
the moon yeah right yeah so yeah you

446
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:18,090
know the climate are skeptics who are

447
00:19:22,850 --> 00:19:20,250
climate skeptics are a different breed

448
00:19:25,310 --> 00:19:22,860
because they tend to also be liberal

449
00:19:26,510 --> 00:19:25,320
they're not politically motivated like

450
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:26,520
the right-wingers right wingers

451
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:29,010
conservatives they're against climate

452
00:19:33,470 --> 00:19:30,720
change because they think it's a liberal

453
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:33,480
plot against business and capitalism and

454
00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:36,720
free markets and and those elite snobby

455
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,820
liberals in Harvard and these Coast

456
00:19:41,419 --> 00:19:40,080
liberals and all they want to run the

457
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:41,429
world because they think they know best

458
00:19:46,790 --> 00:19:42,960
and they're using climate change as a

459
00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:46,800
way of manipulating you know policy

460
00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:49,080
political public policy and things like

461
00:19:54,260 --> 00:19:52,230
that obviously skeptics don't think that

462
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:54,270
because they tend not to be conservative

463
00:20:00,260 --> 00:19:56,450
all right ours are skeptics indignant

464
00:20:01,850 --> 00:20:00,270
and but again most the people that mouth

465
00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:01,860
off about it really don't know much

466
00:20:07,549 --> 00:20:04,740
climate science I I agree i mean when i

467
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:07,559
read primers book when i first came out

468
00:20:10,750 --> 00:20:08,940
he and lemurs book i thought hey you

469
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:10,760
know this guy's in our camp yeah he

470
00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:13,530
debunked those crazy creations he was

471
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:14,940
one of the first guys that came out here

472
00:20:19,820 --> 00:20:16,530
line for god he did it he did a

473
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:19,830
wonderful job so he had street cred with

474
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:22,260
jeff walz back yeah yeah so when i read

475
00:20:27,470 --> 00:20:24,960
his book i thought okay this guy's you

476
00:20:28,910 --> 00:20:27,480
know i can trust this guy and wow the

477
00:20:30,290 --> 00:20:28,920
stuff he's right in here you know maybe

478
00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:30,300
I'm wrong maybe I had a shift back and

479
00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:33,030
be skeptical of the climate stuff again

480
00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:37,140
and I read it on a plane and then when I

481
00:20:41,330 --> 00:20:38,700
got back I called Don Prothero my

482
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:41,340
resident expert in these matters at

483
00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:44,730
Caltech and he said oh no no no here go

484
00:20:49,820 --> 00:20:46,440
to this web page there's like a you know

485
00:20:52,610 --> 00:20:49,830
a list of 200 errors in the lemurs book

486
00:20:56,299 --> 00:20:52,620
and not just errors but stuff like he it

487
00:20:58,220 --> 00:20:56,309
really looks like he intentionally lied

488
00:21:00,260 --> 00:20:58,230
about data sets and

489
00:21:01,730 --> 00:21:00,270
and change graphs to make it look

490
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:01,740
different i mean it was really quite

491
00:21:05,390 --> 00:21:04,110
disturbing what i was reading and I mean

492
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:05,400
I could check you can check it you have

493
00:21:09,799 --> 00:21:07,260
his book there's the web page you could

494
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:09,809
look and see what he did it's like this

495
00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:12,570
is really infuriating it's not just that

496
00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:14,760
you made a few errors it really looks at

497
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:16,950
almost intentional you know so I must

498
00:21:23,150 --> 00:21:19,710
admit I haven't written a book and I do

499
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:23,160
tend to steer away from the issue in

500
00:21:28,100 --> 00:21:26,880
general yeah simply because or the two

501
00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:28,110
reasons what I don't know enough about

502
00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:30,110
it I really don't know I mean I'd like

503
00:21:35,419 --> 00:21:32,820
what most of my concentration time is

504
00:21:38,810 --> 00:21:35,429
spent on the classical stuff yeah I'll

505
00:21:41,090 --> 00:21:38,820
made all pasiba bands that you have it

506
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:41,100
on you in your hand right now or ghost

507
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:43,530
of money all this sort of right that's

508
00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:45,690
where my strengths are and the other one

509
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:47,700
is because of the passion stirs up and

510
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:50,130
people write to me extraordinary email

511
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:52,080
so you must get these all the time oh

512
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:54,540
yeah yeah yeah you're a skeptic I'm a

513
00:21:59,360 --> 00:21:56,490
skeptic so why aren't you skeptical of

514
00:22:01,159 --> 00:21:59,370
the climate stuff isn't it obvious we

515
00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:01,169
published a beautiful article in skeptic

516
00:22:06,260 --> 00:22:04,200
by tapio schneider at Caltech who's a

517
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:06,270
professional climate scientists and i

518
00:22:10,490 --> 00:22:08,010
commissioned him just give us give us

519
00:22:13,370 --> 00:22:10,500
like how do we know climate change is

520
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:13,380
real what give us like a 10 bullet point

521
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:15,450
the best grass the best datasets what

522
00:22:19,250 --> 00:22:16,799
are they you know we published it and

523
00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:19,260
the letters we got just hundreds of

524
00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:21,000
emails you know but you know how crazy

525
00:22:25,490 --> 00:22:23,400
or to believe this stuff yeah yeah and

526
00:22:28,460 --> 00:22:25,500
again it's like the heat island effect

527
00:22:30,350 --> 00:22:28,470
is thrown off all the measuring even

528
00:22:32,090 --> 00:22:30,360
though he says right in there you know

529
00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:32,100
most of these measuring stations are

530
00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:35,460
nowhere near cities it's like did they

531
00:22:41,299 --> 00:22:39,030
even read this article just doesn't sort

532
00:22:42,590 --> 00:22:41,309
of a knee-jerk thing I don't know now

533
00:22:44,270 --> 00:22:42,600
you know penduline makes a big thing

534
00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:44,280
like a tam you know it should be okay to

535
00:22:47,390 --> 00:22:45,809
say i don't know he says I don't know if

536
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,400
climate change is really not I don't

537
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:49,200
know it should be okay to say I don't

538
00:22:54,919 --> 00:22:52,530
know yes as a confession of I don't know

539
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:54,929
anything about it to know whether it's

540
00:22:59,419 --> 00:22:56,370
real well I don't know anything about

541
00:23:01,220 --> 00:22:59,429
string theory either or really I don't

542
00:23:04,669 --> 00:23:01,230
know much about much of most of

543
00:23:08,930 --> 00:23:04,679
cosmology or biochemistry or genetics

544
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:08,940
you know I mean and yet we we accept

545
00:23:12,810 --> 00:23:11,410
that we don't say you know I

546
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:12,820
really don't know about that DNA

547
00:23:18,260 --> 00:23:14,320
genetics this is the difference between

548
00:23:20,580 --> 00:23:18,270
saying I generally accept something and

549
00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:20,590
and on the other side of the coin it

550
00:23:24,060 --> 00:23:22,060
doesn't mean I can go out and stand in

551
00:23:25,770 --> 00:23:24,070
front of the public and defend it yes

552
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:25,780
very and I would that's right and a foal

553
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:28,450
dad because they have a question pitch

554
00:23:35,070 --> 00:23:31,210
that may not be what would I say yeah

555
00:23:36,690 --> 00:23:35,080
right oh yeah like cosmology so the

556
00:23:39,930 --> 00:23:36,700
climate thing is definitely politicized

557
00:23:43,710 --> 00:23:39,940
for sure and it's certainly a hot-button

558
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:43,720
issue and so to speak so I wonder and do

559
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:45,610
you see anything on the horizon what's

560
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:47,290
the next big thing that's going to come

561
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:50,170
along yeah I can't see the future but

562
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:53,170
yeah I don't know well you know the

563
00:23:58,920 --> 00:23:55,510
anti-vaccine vaxors thing is still

564
00:24:03,570 --> 00:23:58,930
pretty hot yeah you know that we're

565
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:03,580
still going strong with that the wealth

566
00:24:09,810 --> 00:24:06,010
you know I just assumed that creation

567
00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:09,820
and stuff will never fully die it I mean

568
00:24:13,580 --> 00:24:11,740
we've got a lot of good things in this

569
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:13,590
country I must boast about it and

570
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:16,720
working the creationists pretty hot over

571
00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:18,610
the years yeah i mean that's been pretty

572
00:24:22,020 --> 00:24:20,140
successful i mean they're still there of

573
00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:22,030
course but i don't have nearly the

574
00:24:27,180 --> 00:24:24,580
influence that you right i don't know i

575
00:24:29,610 --> 00:24:27,190
mean i'm now dear friend Eugenie Scott

576
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:29,620
certainly has our hands full constantly

577
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:31,570
cäcilie yeah you'd think they'd be

578
00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:33,370
progress by now it just keeps evolving

579
00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:36,340
the movement so to speak so well we'll

580
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:38,110
go next well you know the intelligent

581
00:24:42,030 --> 00:24:40,240
design movement is much more

582
00:24:46,140 --> 00:24:42,040
sophisticated in the previous soon

583
00:24:48,090 --> 00:24:46,150
gracious so they continue to have legs

584
00:24:49,710 --> 00:24:48,100
but not quite as much as before the

585
00:24:51,210 --> 00:24:49,720
Dover trial is certainly a blow against

586
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:51,220
that yes yes but they haven't gone away

587
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:55,360
for sure they're still around like I

588
00:25:00,360 --> 00:24:56,770
guess it's one of the things that makes

589
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:00,370
our job interesting yeah right going to

590
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:01,600
happen next emit a couple of years ago

591
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:03,520
I'd never heard of the the power balance

592
00:25:07,770 --> 00:25:06,010
bracelet oh right I came a while that's

593
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:07,780
relatively new isn't it may be five yeah

594
00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:10,480
this this sort of the holograph in the

595
00:25:15,210 --> 00:25:12,070
rubberband sort of thing I mean I only

596
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:15,220
had first heard about it in 2009 that

597
00:25:20,580 --> 00:25:16,570
it's been an interesting thing I've ever

598
00:25:23,770 --> 00:25:20,590
on American athletes use it so they have

599
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:23,780
proper balance in their sport

600
00:25:28,490 --> 00:25:26,250
well whatever it is michael shermer I'm

601
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:28,500
sure you'll be receiving emails

602
00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:31,110
constantly yeah well that's but I have

603
00:25:34,250 --> 00:25:32,820
job security in that sense there is

604
00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:34,260
always going to be something for us to

605
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:37,740
do there is eternal vigilance that's the

606
00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:41,010
price of freedom yet and at my sanity if

607
00:25:46,940 --> 00:25:43,560
cost our sanity sometimes here go I'm

608
00:25:48,860 --> 00:25:46,950
afraid so if our listeners I don't

609
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:48,870
subscribe to your magazine and they

610
00:25:51,740 --> 00:25:50,490
should of course what's the best website

611
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:51,750
they can go to to find out more about

612
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:54,450
you your work in the magazine skeptic

613
00:26:00,410 --> 00:25:56,850
calm that's easy it's easy it's very

614
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:00,420
great website yeah it is yet very simple

615
00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:02,400
straightforward if you ever want to sell

616
00:26:07,730 --> 00:26:04,740
it you'd make a fortune in maybe I don't

617
00:26:09,740 --> 00:26:07,740
know about that skeptical Michael

618
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:09,750
Shermer we you and I are about to walk

619
00:26:13,580 --> 00:26:11,970
around the corner down to skeptics in

620
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:13,590
the pub here and so that's good see

621
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:15,810
that's all another movement that I never

622
00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:18,570
anticipated all the social media and the

623
00:26:22,670 --> 00:26:20,430
growth of skepticism from the bottom up

624
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:22,680
it's you know every city I go to there's

625
00:26:25,940 --> 00:26:24,570
you know a skeptics at the pub a these

626
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:25,950
beat-up group the facebook group

627
00:26:29,450 --> 00:26:27,120
whatever you know it's like they're

628
00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:29,460
everywhere it's good stuff agree with

629
00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:31,590
you I've been heavily into this with

630
00:26:37,670 --> 00:26:34,550
just over ten years and this grassroots

631
00:26:39,530 --> 00:26:37,680
socializing meeting yeah just didn't

632
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:39,540
happen yep that's right so it's all

633
00:26:43,390 --> 00:26:41,850
involved that's right and no one

634
00:26:46,790 --> 00:26:43,400
directed it there's no one in charge

635
00:26:49,970 --> 00:26:46,800
which I like we're having our own Arab

636
00:26:51,530 --> 00:26:49,980
Spring Michaels you ever enjoy the rest

637
00:27:04,460 --> 00:26:51,540
of your short stay in Australia and

638
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,220
hi this is scary papi i am ross Blocher

639
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:10,720
okay Ross hey we're from a podcast

640
00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:14,170
called oh no Ross and Carrie we find out

641
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:15,880
what happens when you show up and ask

642
00:27:19,530 --> 00:27:17,290
questions we've hung out with the

643
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:19,540
Cabalists the Mormons we've gone and

644
00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:22,090
gotten ear candle gone to the Sikhs we

645
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:24,550
show up so you don't have to so find out

646
00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:26,170
where we're going next we'll even have

647
00:27:30,660 --> 00:27:28,270
special episodes where we have famous

648
00:27:32,670 --> 00:27:30,670
guests like Brian Dalton from mr. deity

649
00:27:34,650 --> 00:27:32,680
you heard that awesome theme music he

650
00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:34,660
wrote that you should come visit us at

651
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:39,070
Oh No podcast.com or facebook.com slash

652
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:41,650
on rack what the hell's honor a cross Oh

653
00:27:52,169 --> 00:27:45,760
in RAC oh oh no Ross and Carrie that's

654
00:27:59,480 --> 00:27:56,549
here's my not spooky action at a

655
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:01,520
well we're here about to see Michael

656
00:28:05,270 --> 00:28:03,840
Sherman L why do you wanna see Michael

657
00:28:06,590 --> 00:28:05,280
Sherman up why'd you come along you seen

658
00:28:10,370 --> 00:28:06,600
him before I have seen in me for years

659
00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:10,380
I've is it the skeptics skeptic and more

660
00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:11,820
or less i think yes i mean there if

661
00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:14,190
something's like or although i disagree

662
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:15,809
with something he says agree with if we

663
00:28:18,620 --> 00:28:17,370
all agree with each other someone once

664
00:28:21,740 --> 00:28:18,630
said if two people agree on everything's

665
00:28:23,330 --> 00:28:21,750
totally one of them's redundant but i

666
00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:23,340
think in many standoff had a good work

667
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:26,840
for skepticism he's also i like his

668
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:29,490
breadth of what he does he isn't just

669
00:28:33,620 --> 00:28:32,580
concert on one particular area of it my

670
00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:33,630
son was asked me the other day i was

671
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:35,340
really booing my symbol is he's written

672
00:28:39,290 --> 00:28:37,440
12 books all of which I accept which

673
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:39,300
cover about eight different topics he's

674
00:28:42,049 --> 00:28:40,559
done the Holocaust and oil thing which

675
00:28:44,540 --> 00:28:42,059
is excellent proceeded to attend

676
00:28:46,250 --> 00:28:44,550
historical research he's done research

677
00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:46,260
in psychology which is his academic

678
00:28:53,740 --> 00:28:49,470
background so I think he's interesting

679
00:28:56,150 --> 00:28:53,750
as a skeptic person he's he's not too

680
00:28:57,410 --> 00:28:56,160
one-dimensional then not saying all

681
00:28:59,930 --> 00:28:57,420
people are but most people concert on

682
00:29:04,340 --> 00:28:59,940
one area they'll do alternative medicine

683
00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:04,350
or they'll do okay paranormal stuff on

684
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:06,300
him that he does the lot and does

685
00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:07,320
everything I think that's what's

686
00:29:12,860 --> 00:29:08,820
interesting about Sherman but he's not

687
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:12,870
into you don't like everybody else yeah

688
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:14,250
and your along receive Michael Schur me

689
00:29:17,390 --> 00:29:15,360
here tonight how come here along the

690
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:17,400
scene I've seen him before a few years

691
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:19,250
ago in Sydney and he did a debate with

692
00:29:24,260 --> 00:29:22,320
Professor John Lennox and that was very

693
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:24,270
good that filled out there was a filled

694
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:26,850
up the Wesley center got 800 people

695
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:30,240
there I think he really mop the floor

696
00:29:35,630 --> 00:29:32,610
with a proposal and what was it about

697
00:29:38,150 --> 00:29:35,640
that time over does site has science

698
00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:38,160
buried God was the question

699
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:41,790
Lennox was trying to set that science

700
00:29:46,510 --> 00:29:44,310
proves the existence of God and Sherman

701
00:29:48,770 --> 00:29:46,520
was arguing the opposite point of view

702
00:29:49,820 --> 00:29:48,780
and what are you hoping to hear from him

703
00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:49,830
tonight what do you think is the hot

704
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:54,750
button issue for schirmer fans today I'm

705
00:29:59,360 --> 00:29:56,460
really not in I'd really don't know what

706
00:30:00,800 --> 00:29:59,370
to expect tonight so I'm interested to

707
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:00,810
hear what it says on all sorts of issues

708
00:30:08,420 --> 00:30:06,810
about religion other things like climate

709
00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:08,430
change I want to see what he has a view

710
00:30:13,910 --> 00:30:10,710
on that and the interesting because I

711
00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:13,920
know a lot of skeptics in Australia have

712
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:15,990
differing views on climate change yeah

713
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:17,250
and there's a lot of confusion about

714
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:19,170
what the word means yeah it's very much

715
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:21,690
a schism issue with with skeptics along

716
00:30:25,130 --> 00:30:23,520
with religion and belief in God the the

717
00:30:28,010 --> 00:30:25,140
global warming is another one isn't it

718
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:28,020
yeah and I think Sherman has published

719
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:31,890
on that on his blog so you comes down

720
00:30:36,260 --> 00:30:33,890
quite strongly in favor of the

721
00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:36,270
anthropogenic global warming and

722
00:30:41,690 --> 00:30:38,340
criticizing the

723
00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:41,700
the global warming skeptic so-called

724
00:30:46,169 --> 00:30:44,260
witnesses all he says tonight yes I'm

725
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:46,179
looking forward to her right and why you

726
00:30:51,810 --> 00:30:47,679
long to see Michael show me here tonight

727
00:30:54,299 --> 00:30:51,820
with the chicken and beef and salad um

728
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:54,309
because i haven't seen michael shermer

729
00:30:58,169 --> 00:30:56,170
speak before in the flesh and i'd like

730
00:31:01,799 --> 00:30:58,179
to here's why I'm here you think it's a

731
00:31:03,210 --> 00:31:01,809
skeptic skeptic yeah i was thinking

732
00:31:05,850 --> 00:31:03,220
about a moment today I thought he's a

733
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:05,860
bit like a younger version of james

734
00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:09,130
randi in terms of you know skeptical

735
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:11,080
stature and other what sort of issues

736
00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:13,600
mighty won't you be really able to use

737
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:16,270
opinion on I don't really mind I think

738
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,530
whatever he wants to talk about probably

739
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:19,360
gonna be interesting enough okay and can

740
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:20,710
ask you why you're here to see Michael

741
00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:23,440
Sherman tonight I'm here because Michael

742
00:31:28,980 --> 00:31:25,390
was one of the first people that I was

743
00:31:33,419 --> 00:31:28,990
introduced to when I left the church so

744
00:31:34,919 --> 00:31:33,429
for me I hesitate to use word hero at

745
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:34,929
all because it's probably doesn't fit

746
00:31:39,270 --> 00:31:36,250
the bill and I don't think it'd like

747
00:31:41,250 --> 00:31:39,280
that but for me it was him and richard

748
00:31:43,650 --> 00:31:41,260
dawkins were the first people that I i

749
00:31:45,570 --> 00:31:43,660
was able to get ahold of to learn about

750
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:45,580
critical thinking and you know in

751
00:31:49,740 --> 00:31:47,530
questioning where my own beliefs and

752
00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:49,750
what the church was teaching and was it

753
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:51,520
any particular book of his that did it

754
00:31:56,220 --> 00:31:53,679
orjust his general writings you know

755
00:31:58,169 --> 00:31:56,230
what it was actually TED Talks for the

756
00:32:02,029 --> 00:31:58,179
first place I started and and he did a

757
00:32:06,659 --> 00:32:02,039
revision of a carl sagan's

758
00:32:08,909 --> 00:32:06,669
the baloney detection kit so for me

759
00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:08,919
those are the first first two things and

760
00:32:13,409 --> 00:32:11,740
now I've moved into a dawkins book from

761
00:32:15,779 --> 00:32:13,419
there which was obviously quite

762
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:15,789
enlightening to me at the time over one

763
00:32:19,019 --> 00:32:17,529
of the people but people's always

764
00:32:21,090 --> 00:32:19,029
references demon haunted world as a

765
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:21,100
great start for critical thinking I read

766
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:22,720
demon haunted world and it didn't it was

767
00:32:26,190 --> 00:32:24,610
a little bit dry for me but why people

768
00:32:28,409 --> 00:32:26,200
believe weird things was something that

769
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:28,419
came a bit more alive to me um do you

770
00:32:32,940 --> 00:32:30,370
think he has a really interesting way of

771
00:32:35,129 --> 00:32:32,950
twisting things around I think partly

772
00:32:36,749 --> 00:32:35,139
because of his his own background which

773
00:32:38,399 --> 00:32:36,759
I've read a little bit about I know that

774
00:32:41,369 --> 00:32:38,409
he's come out of a similar church set up

775
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,379
to what I was in he his communication

776
00:32:46,049 --> 00:32:43,840
style was something that was quite

777
00:32:47,669 --> 00:32:46,059
familiar to me and was very easy to

778
00:32:50,340 --> 00:32:47,679
break through and I quite appreciated

779
00:32:53,970 --> 00:32:50,350
that then why you here to see Michael

780
00:32:56,460 --> 00:32:53,980
Sherman and I why Michael because he's

781
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:56,470
the founder of you just written the

782
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,440
American skeptics so I've been coming to

783
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:01,360
the skeptics meeting fairly regularly so

784
00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:03,610
I wanted to see ya you know what he has

785
00:33:07,409 --> 00:33:05,470
to say and also I bought his book so i'm

786
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:07,419
going to which book was that the

787
00:33:14,369 --> 00:33:10,690
believing brain is it one topic you'd

788
00:33:16,860 --> 00:33:14,379
like to see him talk about tonight i'm

789
00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:16,870
sure i just want to get surprised i

790
00:33:20,249 --> 00:33:18,220
didn't have anything specific in mind

791
00:33:23,129 --> 00:33:20,259
and it's halfway through the book and i

792
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:23,139
think it's a great book so you just want

793
00:33:27,740 --> 00:33:25,690
to see Freddie can't tell you how it

794
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:27,750
ends that'll spoil alone

795
00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:31,570
hi dinner maybe and how come you're here

796
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:33,070
to see Michael Sherman tonight well

797
00:33:36,810 --> 00:33:34,690
actually to be honest I don't know much

798
00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:36,820
about Michael specifically but you know

799
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:38,440
I think they're coming out to hear talks

800
00:33:42,930 --> 00:33:40,870
is a great way to one first hand about

801
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:42,940
what someone's about yeah well just

802
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:44,080
looking around your table here got

803
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:46,240
people at interest in atheist issues in

804
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:47,710
scientists issues in philosophical

805
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:49,570
issues so I mean that there's a great

806
00:33:52,159 --> 00:33:51,010
broad range of experiences you can have

807
00:33:54,810 --> 00:33:52,169
in the one room it and that isn't

808
00:33:56,519 --> 00:33:54,820
absolutely yeah I think I heard Michael

809
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:56,529
being interviewed by the the skeptics

810
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,090
guide to the universe at one point and

811
00:34:03,870 --> 00:34:01,120
from memory he seems really interesting

812
00:34:06,690 --> 00:34:03,880
I personally feel that it's good idea to

813
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:06,700
take the opportunity to hear anyone you

814
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:09,970
know giving a skeptical talk because you

815
00:34:14,399 --> 00:34:12,490
know it's we we've just had time

816
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:14,409
Australia fairly recently which is great

817
00:34:18,570 --> 00:34:16,690
and just the more people we can show

818
00:34:20,070 --> 00:34:18,580
that show support that we're coming we

819
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:20,080
can come out to see them I think the

820
00:34:25,619 --> 00:34:23,440
better it is the excitement's building

821
00:34:28,379 --> 00:34:25,629
here at the mezz bar the mezz bar in

822
00:34:29,820 --> 00:34:28,389
Sydney I'm with may not I may not oh hi

823
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:29,830
look I'm really excited because I really

824
00:34:33,089 --> 00:34:30,970
want to have a chat to Michael Shermer

825
00:34:35,460 --> 00:34:33,099
about alien abductions because I believe

826
00:34:37,349 --> 00:34:35,470
that he deigns yes a baby because I

827
00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:37,359
think he probably became a skeptic

828
00:34:41,099 --> 00:34:39,460
because he's in denial about his own

829
00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:41,109
alien abduction which you can read about

830
00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:43,270
in his book you know I didn't even think

831
00:34:47,869 --> 00:34:45,790
the talk to him about you didn't know we

832
00:34:50,430 --> 00:34:47,879
chatted about the 911 and creepers and

833
00:34:53,369 --> 00:34:50,440
climate change but we didn't talk about

834
00:34:54,930 --> 00:34:53,379
aliens and as someone who's a major

835
00:34:57,510 --> 00:34:54,940
skeptic I would like to know what he

836
00:34:59,579 --> 00:34:57,520
would concede to be a piece of evidence

837
00:35:01,500 --> 00:34:59,589
in favor of alien abduction or indeed

838
00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:01,510
UFOs especial I mean most people say

839
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:03,220
they want a piece of the spaceship what

840
00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:04,810
would be enough for him as a major

841
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:07,240
skeptic in the entire world or what be

842
00:35:10,650 --> 00:35:08,290
the evidence for him I mean what would

843
00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:10,660
it be for you Richard

844
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:14,270
no I don't know I'm arrived in the

845
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:15,680
spaceship I well that's a good question

846
00:35:21,010 --> 00:35:17,930
for me personally of the science is sort

847
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:21,020
of two different questions because my

848
00:35:24,850 --> 00:35:22,640
level of evidence would be lower than

849
00:35:27,460 --> 00:35:24,860
the general scientific I mean I could be

850
00:35:29,590 --> 00:35:27,470
taken tomorrow on a UFO right and I'd be

851
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:29,600
convinced yes that's it well got the

852
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:32,240
answer it wouldn't mean jugglery society

853
00:35:35,380 --> 00:35:33,710
I couldn't prove it yeah I mean there's

854
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:35,390
plenty of credible people that have seen

855
00:35:38,260 --> 00:35:37,040
something which I believe most skeptics

856
00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:38,270
would believe would be an argument from

857
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:40,400
Authority let's ask the man right now

858
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:42,770
Michael Shermer we have an interesting

859
00:35:46,780 --> 00:35:45,410
question for you is hosed by Maynard now

860
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:46,790
I'm just want to get you as one of the

861
00:35:50,110 --> 00:35:48,290
major skeptics of the world what would

862
00:35:52,420 --> 00:35:50,120
you consider an acceptable piece of

863
00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:52,430
evidence in favor of alien abduction or

864
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:54,350
indeed the UFO phenomenon itself a piece

865
00:36:00,490 --> 00:35:57,170
of the spacecraft at one particularly

866
00:36:03,150 --> 00:36:00,500
good eye witness that you believe no no

867
00:36:05,650 --> 00:36:03,160
eyewitness account it's going to do it

868
00:36:08,650 --> 00:36:05,660
you know in biology to name a new

869
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:08,660
species you have to have a type specimen

870
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:13,250
holotype they're called and and you have

871
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:14,510
to have you know it's a physical

872
00:36:22,090 --> 00:36:19,310
specimen not a footprint not a grainy

873
00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:22,100
video or a blurry photograph you know

874
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:24,110
not some hair that could be a dog hair

875
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:28,570
bear here an actual body that can be

876
00:36:34,270 --> 00:36:32,090
dissected and like when the Platypus was

877
00:36:35,590 --> 00:36:34,280
first you know introduced to Europeans

878
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:35,600
they thought it was a fake Yeah right

879
00:36:41,230 --> 00:36:39,290
but once you have it you can dissect it

880
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:41,240
and so on and you can tell whether it's

881
00:36:44,730 --> 00:36:42,010
real or not

882
00:36:47,940 --> 00:36:44,740
that's what we need for an alien or a

883
00:36:49,590 --> 00:36:47,950
Bigfoot up nearly enjoyed in your book

884
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:49,600
where you had your own alien abduction

885
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:51,250
experience how can you be sure that

886
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:52,930
wasn't it actually an alien abduction

887
00:36:57,690 --> 00:36:56,050
experience because I had the the book

888
00:36:58,800 --> 00:36:57,700
this will do spoken word broken you

889
00:37:02,040 --> 00:36:58,810
sound a pretty convinced you'd been

890
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:02,050
abducted there right well I woke up

891
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:05,530
after my sleep breaking the aliens went

892
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:09,610
away that's how we now why are you

893
00:37:12,780 --> 00:37:11,290
pushing yourself that hard bike riding

894
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:12,790
anyway I have to write it was a bike

895
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:15,280
race and I hope you won a large cash

896
00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:17,710
prosody and then there's no money yeah

897
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:21,700
sorry for the love of the sport only why

898
00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:23,410
not you've had your question answered

899
00:37:27,090 --> 00:37:25,030
after all these years that's why I'll

900
00:37:30,750 --> 00:37:27,100
get back to my chicken now think thanks

901
00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:33,600
now I'm with our skeptic secretary

902
00:37:38,130 --> 00:37:36,070
Jessica singer hi Jessica hey Richard

903
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:38,140
how are you I'm well look at this and

904
00:37:42,180 --> 00:37:39,610
big turnout tonight for Michael Shermer

905
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:42,190
at the Mesmer here in Sydney and and

906
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:44,970
still law coming up the stairs right now

907
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:47,710
here's somebody else just signing in now

908
00:37:52,140 --> 00:37:50,170
and I'm also with Tim mendham the editor

909
00:37:54,570 --> 00:37:52,150
and executive officer of Australian

910
00:37:56,250 --> 00:37:54,580
skeptics I to him I Richard I see some

911
00:37:58,110 --> 00:37:56,260
really good to have these social events

912
00:38:00,060 --> 00:37:58,120
ninja that's fantastic actually the most

913
00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:00,070
weight a meeting people they're catching

914
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:01,870
up with names with putting faces to

915
00:38:06,570 --> 00:38:03,520
names yeah it's excellent can take the

916
00:38:08,010 --> 00:38:06,580
number of faces and names here that I

917
00:38:09,390 --> 00:38:08,020
don't recognize there are new to me

918
00:38:10,410 --> 00:38:09,400
which is a good thing excellent thing

919
00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:10,420
actually they're quite a few people have

920
00:38:13,410 --> 00:38:11,620
come along for the first time to one of

921
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:13,420
these so it's excellent yeah free

922
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:16,090
pleased so I think the message would be

923
00:38:21,090 --> 00:38:17,970
four people out there considering

924
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:21,100
organizing a social activity a pubs a

925
00:38:24,090 --> 00:38:22,630
great place to do it for skeptics it

926
00:38:25,410 --> 00:38:24,100
would seem I mean perhaps a perfect

927
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:25,420
place especially yeah right now we've

928
00:38:28,290 --> 00:38:26,800
got this broom to ourselves actually

929
00:38:29,610 --> 00:38:28,300
yeah this makes a very intimate because

930
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:29,620
we will have a decent crowd will fill

931
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:32,170
this room and and our guest at the

932
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:34,480
moment is circulating and chatting to

933
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:36,510
people so it's quite intimate and

934
00:38:40,590 --> 00:38:38,530
everybody's you know getting to have a

935
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:40,600
have a chat with him and we just gaze

936
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:42,250
over there there he is Michael Shona

937
00:38:45,330 --> 00:38:44,050
just at a table now chatting to some

938
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:45,340
punters who have come along which is

939
00:38:49,980 --> 00:38:47,410
really great yeah it's fantastic it's

940
00:38:52,410 --> 00:38:49,990
it's much more intimate and I think

941
00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:52,420
friendlier and and nicer than you have

942
00:38:55,830 --> 00:38:54,310
another type of venue like a lecture

943
00:38:58,260 --> 00:38:55,840
theatre or something and you can have a

944
00:39:00,120 --> 00:38:58,270
beer and you can have it be a very

945
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:00,130
important for me somewhere you can drink

946
00:39:05,250 --> 00:39:03,310
yes or as main artist doing I may not

947
00:39:07,830 --> 00:39:05,260
look at him holding into that chicken

948
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:07,840
over there oh and a sheís very important

949
00:39:13,050 --> 00:39:10,630
you stop commenting on your hoeing into

950
00:39:14,670 --> 00:39:13,060
the chicken that is fantastic chicken in

951
00:39:16,110 --> 00:39:14,680
fact i'll recommend after good

952
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:16,120
discussion with Marple schirmer about

953
00:39:20,660 --> 00:39:18,010
alien abduction that is a chicken in the

954
00:39:25,370 --> 00:39:22,609
we let him go back to his chicken and

955
00:39:28,490 --> 00:39:25,380
this salad and shortly we'll we'll all

956
00:39:29,210 --> 00:39:28,500
enjoy Michaels talk very much it's

957
00:39:30,620 --> 00:39:29,220
actually the first time I've seen

958
00:39:33,039 --> 00:39:30,630
Michael Shermer so I'm really looking

959
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:33,049
forward to it really oh there you go I

960
00:39:39,049 --> 00:39:36,000
remember seeing saw Michael when he was

961
00:39:41,150 --> 00:39:39,059
in Australia in 2008 yes and he spoke at

962
00:39:43,220 --> 00:39:41,160
the American car yes I remember that day

963
00:39:46,490 --> 00:39:43,230
though yeah a good day and of course he

964
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:46,500
also spoke at tam this year tam 9 from

965
00:39:50,299 --> 00:39:49,200
outer space in Las Vegas he did I'll

966
00:39:53,210 --> 00:39:50,309
take your word for that because my

967
00:39:58,140 --> 00:39:53,220
memory is shot of terminal yeah I expect

968
00:40:02,589 --> 00:40:00,819
look ladies and gentlemen I'm ki hobe

969
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:02,599
this man in the lobby of his hotel he

970
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:04,250
may not even pay his hotel bill after

971
00:40:07,870 --> 00:40:06,290
idea give him a hard time here but the

972
00:40:10,170 --> 00:40:07,880
word skeptic comes up and people think

973
00:40:12,579 --> 00:40:10,180
skeptic oh no crackpots with evidence

974
00:40:15,810 --> 00:40:12,589
Craig parts of evidence i like that me

975
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:15,820
start using that well you know we're

976
00:40:21,310 --> 00:40:19,010
we're scientists were critical thinkers

977
00:40:23,650 --> 00:40:21,320
were people interested in the way the

978
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:23,660
world really works we want to know the

979
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:25,730
solved mysteries and the unsolved

980
00:40:30,339 --> 00:40:27,760
mysteries and solve them where we can

981
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,349
anybody that's curious about any of this

982
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:32,960
stuff would be a candidate for skeptic

983
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:34,970
magazine or to join one of these kept

984
00:40:39,550 --> 00:40:37,280
achsah sia tease i think it's really

985
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:39,560
just being well really technically what

986
00:40:42,730 --> 00:40:40,970
it means skepticism is thoughtful

987
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:42,740
inquiry and that's what we do we just

988
00:40:48,099 --> 00:40:45,440
thoughtfully inquire into how the world

989
00:40:49,329 --> 00:40:48,109
works and how did you get onto this

990
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:49,339
track did you have some sort of

991
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:51,290
revelation or some experience or some

992
00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:53,359
almost paranormal event which made you

993
00:40:57,359 --> 00:40:55,310
thought hang on i need to rationalize

994
00:40:59,290 --> 00:40:57,369
this as a Haycock message that's a much

995
00:41:01,599 --> 00:40:59,300
personal experience so that we've all

996
00:41:03,819 --> 00:41:01,609
had unusual i mean i've had deja vu

997
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:03,829
experiences and add about experiences

998
00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:07,450
stuff like that but no I'm by training a

999
00:41:11,530 --> 00:41:09,440
experimental psychologist cognitive

1000
00:41:16,030 --> 00:41:11,540
psychologists whatever and I'm

1001
00:41:18,849 --> 00:41:16,040
interested in how the mind works and how

1002
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:18,859
it comes to believe weird things to me

1003
00:41:25,089 --> 00:41:21,680
is another subset of these cognitive

1004
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:25,099
studies like why do people believe

1005
00:41:29,260 --> 00:41:27,050
anything at all and so that sort of

1006
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:29,270
takes you into the world of trying to

1007
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:31,730
understand through science not just the

1008
00:41:35,290 --> 00:41:33,410
explanations for the weird things but

1009
00:41:36,849 --> 00:41:35,300
why people believe them even when

1010
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:36,859
there's no evidence is there a

1011
00:41:41,050 --> 00:41:38,810
psychological experiment you always want

1012
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:41,060
to run but can't because of an ex ithaca

1013
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:45,440
committee I guess the 21 grams theory of

1014
00:41:50,290 --> 00:41:47,450
measuring people when they die would

1015
00:41:52,510 --> 00:41:50,300
probably not get approval by any ethics

1016
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:52,520
committee going into the hospital and

1017
00:41:57,490 --> 00:41:55,250
carefully weighing them seconds before

1018
00:42:00,670 --> 00:41:57,500
and seconds after but that would be

1019
00:42:02,290 --> 00:42:00,680
interesting short of that you know what

1020
00:42:03,849 --> 00:42:02,300
we do is just try to trace that where

1021
00:42:06,130 --> 00:42:03,859
that story came from the first place and

1022
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:06,140
that's usually what it you don't even

1023
00:42:09,230 --> 00:42:07,650
have to run the experiment usually

1024
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:09,240
doubt that you know these things get

1025
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:11,250
exaggerated look you've written that the

1026
00:42:15,470 --> 00:42:14,010
paranormal is a gateway drug to science

1027
00:42:17,330 --> 00:42:15,480
yeah and does that mean it works both

1028
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:17,340
ways it can make people go off on

1029
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:19,110
tangents or it can get people interested

1030
00:42:23,330 --> 00:42:20,850
in finding out the scientific method

1031
00:42:25,850 --> 00:42:23,340
behind anything well that's how i'm

1032
00:42:28,130 --> 00:42:25,860
using it is that people may not be

1033
00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:28,140
interested in the philosophy of science

1034
00:42:34,610 --> 00:42:32,310
or logic or critical thinking it sounds

1035
00:42:36,620 --> 00:42:34,620
boring and academic and kind of stuffy

1036
00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:36,630
but you might be interested in Bigfoot

1037
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:38,910
Loch Ness monster aliens conspiracy

1038
00:42:42,350 --> 00:42:40,650
theories who really killed kennedy did

1039
00:42:43,970 --> 00:42:42,360
we really go to the moon you know people

1040
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:43,980
go yeah yeah I've heard about these

1041
00:42:47,870 --> 00:42:46,020
things what's the fire walking yeah do

1042
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:47,880
they do that is it really mine over me

1043
00:42:52,370 --> 00:42:49,290
and before you know you're talking

1044
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:52,380
physics chemistry biology of illusionary

1045
00:42:58,100 --> 00:42:54,960
theory cosmology and your methods of

1046
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:58,110
science and and and all that because

1047
00:43:01,670 --> 00:42:59,520
people are interested in these subjects

1048
00:43:04,310 --> 00:43:01,680
and have you found the Australian

1049
00:43:06,740 --> 00:43:04,320
conspiracy theory situation and a

1050
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:06,750
situation he obviously we have climate

1051
00:43:10,190 --> 00:43:09,210
change and climate date going on here we

1052
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:10,200
have you found the difference win here

1053
00:43:15,110 --> 00:43:13,170
in America I've been surprised that the

1054
00:43:17,570 --> 00:43:15,120
climate deniers are as big as they are

1055
00:43:19,370 --> 00:43:17,580
here we don't have any death threats to

1056
00:43:21,260 --> 00:43:19,380
sign climate scientists in America so I

1057
00:43:24,350 --> 00:43:21,270
thought we were the worst maybe you guys

1058
00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:24,360
have given to some competition to use

1059
00:43:27,950 --> 00:43:26,190
the word deny there is that because it's

1060
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:27,960
just such an obvious scientific fact you

1061
00:43:32,090 --> 00:43:30,240
use the word yeah well so you know are

1062
00:43:33,950 --> 00:43:32,100
the climate revisionists or you know

1063
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:33,960
climate skeptics climate deniers is a

1064
00:43:39,110 --> 00:43:36,770
reasonable adjective i think because

1065
00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:39,120
there's so much evidence now that you

1066
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:41,220
really just have to deny it i think and

1067
00:43:46,580 --> 00:43:44,490
so that seems an appropriate modifier

1068
00:43:49,820 --> 00:43:46,590
and and you don't seem to have that

1069
00:43:53,810 --> 00:43:49,830
level of intensity going on the US well

1070
00:43:55,460 --> 00:43:53,820
it's it's there it's intense maybe not

1071
00:43:57,230 --> 00:43:55,470
as intense as here we get no death

1072
00:43:58,850 --> 00:43:57,240
threats but you know with our political

1073
00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:58,860
a presidential actually coming up in

1074
00:44:03,110 --> 00:44:00,900
2012 the candidates are feeling the need

1075
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:03,120
to speak out according to what they

1076
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:05,610
think they're supposed to say again this

1077
00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:06,930
is part of the problem you know I don't

1078
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:07,920
know if these guys they don't know

1079
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:09,210
anything about climate science what do

1080
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:10,740
they know the right but they're saying

1081
00:44:13,730 --> 00:44:12,210
what they think their constituents want

1082
00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:13,740
to hear well yeah um do you think

1083
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:15,240
America is just too ripped apart by the

1084
00:44:17,930 --> 00:44:16,530
whole blue sky ridge site they

1085
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:17,940
absolutely it's very black and my very

1086
00:44:21,830 --> 00:44:19,520
tribal

1087
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:21,840
have you got a favorite candidate even

1088
00:44:28,130 --> 00:44:25,920
well i think obama will probably win if

1089
00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:28,140
the economy turns around even a little

1090
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:29,880
bit just make some progress in the next

1091
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:31,650
12 months if not i think you'll probably

1092
00:44:35,930 --> 00:44:33,810
lose doesn't matter who is on the other

1093
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:35,940
side I feel about the real the the

1094
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:37,970
outside of candidates like Trump oh I

1095
00:44:43,130 --> 00:44:40,650
actually like someone Ron Paul stuff of

1096
00:44:44,660 --> 00:44:43,140
course I'm a libertarian so I would he's

1097
00:44:46,130 --> 00:44:44,670
a little nutty in some other areas some

1098
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,140
libertarians get a little conspiratorial

1099
00:44:51,770 --> 00:44:48,000
he made that comment one of the debates

1100
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:51,780
a couple weeks ago about the immigration

1101
00:44:58,099 --> 00:44:54,480
wall built down there by Mexico is built

1102
00:45:00,830 --> 00:44:58,109
to keep Americans in as well as Mexicans

1103
00:45:02,780 --> 00:45:00,840
I was like wait wait what and then oh

1104
00:45:04,370 --> 00:45:02,790
yeah that's that conspiracy about how

1105
00:45:06,410 --> 00:45:04,380
you know the government's building

1106
00:45:07,370 --> 00:45:06,420
highways with the black helicopters and

1107
00:45:09,740 --> 00:45:07,380
they're going to put us all in

1108
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:09,750
concentration camps and you know suspend

1109
00:45:12,770 --> 00:45:11,490
all civil liberties you know this is

1110
00:45:15,140 --> 00:45:12,780
going to happen I've been hearing this

1111
00:45:16,849 --> 00:45:15,150
since I was a teenager and it hasn't

1112
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:16,859
happened yet so do you spend a little

1113
00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:20,130
time yelling at the television I propo

1114
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:22,260
bugs at it Oh phone books that no one

1115
00:45:26,839 --> 00:45:25,170
uses any more look and just that one

1116
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:26,849
last question though with you in your

1117
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:28,710
book you talk about the the dualism of

1118
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:30,960
the mind and how we think of the brain

1119
00:45:34,490 --> 00:45:33,210
and the mind could you just explain that

1120
00:45:36,589 --> 00:45:34,500
briefly it was that to something we have

1121
00:45:38,210 --> 00:45:36,599
to read in 500 pages no no actually it's

1122
00:45:40,070 --> 00:45:38,220
a very simple concept called dualism

1123
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:40,080
that were natural-born duelists we tend

1124
00:45:43,820 --> 00:45:41,490
to almost everybody tends to think

1125
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:43,830
there's two substances corporeal and in

1126
00:45:48,410 --> 00:45:45,920
corporeal body and soul brain in mind

1127
00:45:51,980 --> 00:45:48,420
there's something else out there behind

1128
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,990
besides this the physical world and the

1129
00:45:54,859 --> 00:45:53,280
fact is there's no evidence for this

1130
00:45:56,599 --> 00:45:54,869
there really isn't but we think that

1131
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:56,609
there is it is not a healthy thing and

1132
00:46:00,670 --> 00:45:58,170
then that's what's made us motor Michael

1133
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:00,680
is great scientific discoveries well

1134
00:46:05,390 --> 00:46:04,170
like what I mean I don't know maybe we

1135
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:05,400
SAT around the world to find out what

1136
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:06,960
was there because wondering yeah I see

1137
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:08,490
the search for some mystery yeah sure of

1138
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:09,930
course it's I mean one of the great

1139
00:46:14,089 --> 00:46:11,730
unsolved mysteries is consciousness you

1140
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:14,099
know how does this even happen or mine

1141
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:16,530
well I do we can construct mind out of

1142
00:46:20,180 --> 00:46:18,240
just brain cells you know brain cells

1143
00:46:22,970 --> 00:46:20,190
are just it's just chemistry it's

1144
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:22,980
electric meet with you know chemicals

1145
00:46:27,109 --> 00:46:24,450
and hormones swapping around in there

1146
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:27,119
how does that gets translated into what

1147
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:27,290
you

1148
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:29,090
and I are doing right now thinking and

1149
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:31,010
talking and being cognitive you know

1150
00:46:34,660 --> 00:46:33,170
cognitively aware i'm aware i'm aware

1151
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:34,670
that you're aware i know that you know

1152
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:36,770
that i know that you know and how is

1153
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:39,290
that even possible we don't know this is

1154
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:40,640
one of the great unsolved mysteries but

1155
00:46:44,830 --> 00:46:42,530
that doesn't mean it's paranormal it

1156
00:46:46,660 --> 00:46:44,840
just means we don't know and we what

1157
00:46:49,660 --> 00:46:46,670
you're saying it's okay to say we don't

1158
00:46:51,610 --> 00:46:49,670
know in science yes our brains are not

1159
00:46:53,290 --> 00:46:51,620
comfortable doing that but with training

1160
00:46:56,290 --> 00:46:53,300
you can learn to do it I actually like

1161
00:46:58,090 --> 00:46:56,300
it I think it's kind of energizing to

1162
00:47:00,070 --> 00:46:58,100
thank god there's a lot of really cool

1163
00:47:03,310 --> 00:47:00,080
mysteries out there that I don't know

1164
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:03,320
and let's go in search what's the quick

1165
00:47:08,410 --> 00:47:05,450
way to train your brain whoa like not

1166
00:47:10,090 --> 00:47:08,420
knowing I mean I'm is a quick shortcut

1167
00:47:12,310 --> 00:47:10,100
to that just say it just say you know

1168
00:47:15,730 --> 00:47:12,320
just say it's okay to say I don't know

1169
00:47:17,710 --> 00:47:15,740
go ahead sit I don't know I don't know

1170
00:47:19,870 --> 00:47:17,720
Michael but I do know I'm very tired

1171
00:47:32,710 --> 00:47:19,880
you're very tired it's time for bed

1172
00:47:37,849 --> 00:47:35,839
hey bro oh hey / what's up check it out

1173
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:37,859
finally a Back to the Future invention

1174
00:47:44,329 --> 00:47:39,930
that is coming to existence i present to

1175
00:47:46,460 --> 00:47:44,339
you mahavir ball dude that's a BS band

1176
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:46,470
skateboard deck from the ashy skateboard

1177
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:49,440
yes a skateboard without wheel yeah

1178
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:51,510
you're supposed to buy your own wheels

1179
00:47:55,519 --> 00:47:53,490
and bolt the law and look it has a

1180
00:47:57,950 --> 00:47:55,529
placebo been right here in the packaging

1181
00:47:59,720 --> 00:47:57,960
that must be what powers it what do you

1182
00:48:02,299 --> 00:47:59,730
own a pair that's right your very own

1183
00:48:04,220 --> 00:48:02,309
hoverboard and skeptic browser com has

1184
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:04,230
one to give away do it a skeptic bros

1185
00:48:08,210 --> 00:48:06,210
calm and click on the comp tab for more

1186
00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:08,220
details that's a skateboard deck right

1187
00:48:13,759 --> 00:48:11,700
not a hoverboard it doesn't actually fly

1188
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:13,769
you go get the car I'll get my Michael J

1189
00:48:17,870 --> 00:48:15,510
on hold on to the bumper and float down

1190
00:48:30,540 --> 00:48:17,880
the freeway sure why not that could be

1191
00:48:34,990 --> 00:48:33,070
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1192
00:48:38,380 --> 00:48:35,000
zone now I've got very exciting news

1193
00:48:40,450 --> 00:48:38,390
always i'm heading for Manchester I'm

1194
00:48:45,730 --> 00:48:40,460
heading for Manchester in the UK to

1195
00:48:48,370 --> 00:48:45,740
attend QED in march next year cannot

1196
00:48:50,530 --> 00:48:48,380
wait for that more information as the

1197
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:50,540
months go by are you can find out more

1198
00:48:55,810 --> 00:48:52,730
right now those people like he enough to

1199
00:48:59,020 --> 00:48:55,820
live in the UK Google QED Manchester or

1200
00:49:02,170 --> 00:48:59,030
QED Khan and away you go so I am

1201
00:49:05,770 --> 00:49:02,180
absolutely thrilled that i'll be

1202
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:05,780
speaking at QED hopefully hopefully some

1203
00:49:10,450 --> 00:49:07,490
people will be listening I'm also

1204
00:49:12,730 --> 00:49:10,460
thrilled that i'll be speaking at the

1205
00:49:15,310 --> 00:49:12,740
convention in New Orleans for the

1206
00:49:18,610 --> 00:49:15,320
committee for skeptical inquiry so icon

1207
00:49:20,890 --> 00:49:18,620
in New Orleans and that's sir towards

1208
00:49:22,750 --> 00:49:20,900
the end of October that's going to be

1209
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:22,760
fun in fact i'll spend a few days with

1210
00:49:29,110 --> 00:49:25,130
brian dunning after that and chase a few

1211
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:29,120
ghosts or or something hmm anyway thank

1212
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:30,800
you for listening to this michael

1213
00:49:41,020 --> 00:49:33,680
shermer special this is Richard Saunders

1214
00:49:44,410 --> 00:49:41,030
signing off from Sydney Australia you've

1215
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:44,420
been listening to the skeptic zone visit

1216
00:49:51,490 --> 00:49:49,010
our website at www skeptics on TV the